WSTB

Is population growth really a benefit?

Winston-Salem is growing, albeit not at the gangbusters rate of the Charlotte and Raleigh metros. I think one of the best things about Winston is that it is not like those cities.

I can drive to work in about 10 minutes. I often see people I know around town. These things contribute to the quality of life here and likely would be lacking in a big city.

No one I know of has ever said decline or stagnation was a benefit.

Population growth raises your home value, can turn-around abandonment (I've heard the east side is seeing population decline, which leads to abandonment and loss of tax revenue?), since moving is expensive a good number of people who can afford to move have maybe a higher education/skills, growth can bring new ideas into your community, growth leads to more construction and jobs in that field and related fields from architecture to engineering and strong companies in those fields, population growth can bring people with different faiths or from different countries to your city or metro so the community can meet and know these people and become more educated about them and more tolerant, growth can bring different foods to your city, it gives a city a larger audience for the arts, it brings more money into a community for area businesses and charities, it attracts new retail and restaurants, it makes a city more attractive for sports and events, it creates a growing workforce that makes a city attractive for new jobs, growth is definitely a benefit for cities as well as counties and metros. As you can see, from the mayor's event, cities want it. Winston-Salem is a city. People who don't like cities and what cities must do, should move to slower growing small towns. I live in one of the most desirable areas of a massive metro area that is ranked among the fastest growing in the nation... and still see friends and people who recognize me, across several counties, and my commute is a result of me making a bad decision to move too far out. I can improve that by moving closer or finding a job at one of the many office buildings near my house. If I did that, I could have a shorter commute than you have. A tower crane is building an office building an 8 minute commute from my house and I pass other buildings to reach the site with the tower crane. The growth brings more to the area, from future friends to new jobs to top-level entertainment to more shopping to more things to do, that improve quality of life here and continue to attract more people for that high quality of life that causes the rapid growth to continue. I would like to see Winston-Salem reach the level of growth Durham has.

I think Deacon Dawg makes an important point here.

Bigger isn't necessarily better! We should be envisioning the right size, not the next size up.

In Winston's case, we have so much unused space and remaining brownfields that substantial growth in the core is certainly still necessary. But it would be well to plan for an optimal plateau where we can retain the lovely connected vibe that we now enjoy.

As Dawg pointed out, we get to know our shopkeepers and often see the same folk when puttering around Winston. This rare amenity is so completely absent from the opinion-leading cities that it almost never comes up in discussions of urban quality of life.

If you refer back to the 'texts' on cities which inspired the 'new urbanism' (popular books, paintings, movies), you'll see a ubiquitous camaraderie -- constant hellos to neighbors, acquaintances and tradespeople. That vibe forms the essence of the notion of 'quartier' and has been entirely lost in the American usage of the word 'neighborhood'. It probably seems quaint to a lot of the more 'industrial chic' crowd but my life is richer every time I recognize a passing face, smile, and say "hey".

Here's to compact, right-sized city spaces with leafy canopies and happy people!

imo, the minimum population (at the county level) for critical mass and the ability to support properly urban activities is between 400k and 500k - just my opinion, and Forsyth is closing in on 400k.

To clarify, I don't want to see Winston in stagnation or decline, but I'm quite happy with a sustainable slow growth model. With Winston growing around at a rate of 0.8 - 1% per year, it's robust enough to support plenty of construction, but it's not so much that it will break the bank on having to build and support new infrastructure.

On the other hand, Charlotte is designed for growth. In fact, if Charlotte isn't growing at a 2-3% rate, then the city suffers because they can't support all their new amenities. The top 50 US cities are kind of cancerous in that sense -- they must keep growing aggressively, or they peter out and die.

I wasn't sure where to post this, but from the TBJ: "Truliant launches foundation to support commitment to community". It's great to see a local company establish a foundation to support this area. From their website: "Established in 2021 to support Truliant Federal Credit Union’s commitment to community and the credit union’s social responsibility to give back to the neighbors we serve, the Truliant Foundation elevates the “People Helping People” credit union philosophy by providing donations, grants and scholarships to the community and relief funds to employees facing unforeseen personal hardships."

This is an interesting article in the Charlotte Observer: https://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/ ... 10306.html

Three of NC’s top five cities are in the Charlotte Observer list - what two are missing? One has to believe both of these two do everything they can to promote and sell themselves, certainly the eastern one anyway. So, clearly the State must be failing these two. Oh wait one of the 10 is in a fourth city’s MSA.

Yet all three "Triad" cities made this list - with Charlotte lagging behind.
Never underestimate the impact of such rankings on a city's ability to "promote and sell" itself:

https://www.wnct.com/news/national/six- ... ed-states/

GWSI (formerly the WS Chamber) has a new publication that is focused on touting quality of life, etc. in the area to attract new businesses / talent at the link below.

https://mailchi.mp/winstonsalem.com/hcn ... aa53b0018a

Nice publication, I’ve always liked the use of greater with metro area names. But in this case, one must pause to wonder about the use of GWSI. While Greater Winston-Salem Insights is catchy and clever viewing GWSI alone as an acronym nationally and perhaps even regionally will to many conjure a so-called triad vision of Greensboro/Winston-Salem something or other since nationally W-S is considered in the Greensboro sphere (by the uninformed) even though W-S is a separate MSA (thank you Census Bureau) no doubt because nationally only Greensboro is listed on airport flight displays and W-S is second in the CSA designation. Further, an internet search reveals scores of everything but this publication.

Congratulations to the city of Greensboro and the second recent major economic development announcement for their city. While there are some that will hail these announcements as a win for the Triad as a whole, the attention is given to the city of Greensboro. They now have the momentum. Winston-Salem seemed to have some momentum a few years ago as the Innovation Quarter saw steady growth. Now that Atrium is involved and speculation exists that Charlotte may once again reap the benefits of Winston-Salem’s efforts, that excitement has turned into skepticism. Where is the evidence that Atrium is moving forward with their ambitions plans to expand the Innovation Quarter? Where is the leadership here in Winston-Salem? What are leaders doing to bring major employers here? It seems as if local leaders here in Winston-Salem have been silent since the pandemic began. What is being done to fill the former BB&T headquarters building with new jobs? There has been talk on this forum of converting the building into a residential development. At what point do we focus on attracting jobs to fill these vacant properties rather than converting them into housing? Where are these people that are expected to fill all of these new residential units going to work? I love this city. I’ve long been a huge supporter of this city. It’s becoming more and more difficult to maintain that enthusiasm as we continue to bleed jobs and the local leadership appears to do nothing to reverse that trajectory.

Good post dtws, good summary and all valid points. It can only be concluded that Winston-Salem is “snakebit.”

I heard Karen Barnes speak of how Winston-Salem and Greensboro are different cities in employment. Greensboro is clearly manufacturing. From my own observations, they have worked to position themselves as a major hub for manufacturing. Interstates, rail, a history of manufacturing, educational investments, and a freight airport with mega sites. They also have the flat land and ability to expand water/sewer service that is favorable for it. Those projects can also reach into the hundreds and sometimes thousands of jobs. She described Winston-Salem as something different. I can't remember exactly what she called it, but it is its own independent thing. I remember it was a city of diverse employers (diverse in what they do) and there wasn't a leading cluster. Winston-Salem has invested heavily in research and technology, startups, education, and healthcare. The area is currently investing in its airport for VTOL, drones, etc.,. Winston-Salem is also wanting to become an advanced manufacturing center. It appears as if Greensboro completed their investments and are now gaining the rewards. Winston-Salem appears to be still investing, with some projects only beginning and others finally ready for their rewards. FTCC's airport center and the bridge are completed, but they are just preparing to start on the new hangars and haven't started on the terminal building. Interestingly, Winston-Salem is now the Triad's leading startup center. Just a few years ago, this city was far behind in that category. Wake Forest's Engineering School is really just starting. Winston-Salem already has the hospital cluster for the region and now they are expanding. Winston-Salem is chasing higher paying and higher education jobs. That is why so many outsiders are looking at what Winston-Salem is doing, including Charlotte, and why no one is really looking at what Greensboro is doing, even though they are doing great things and are now becoming the city they visioned. However, a lot of the employers Winston-Salem is working to attract may only employ 1-250 people. You'll see a 50 job announcement in Winston-Salem, with jobs paying $150,000+ and you'll see an announcement in Greensboro of 1,000 jobs paying $69,000 or maybe $15 an hour.

So much office work is moving to work-from-home and thankfully so. Winston-Salem stopped attracting those jobs maybe 20-25 years ago? Now it's about attracting the talent. From what I've heard, the plan is still to attract an office user to the former BB&T Headquarters. That building is so dated. It will likely take $25+ million to make it attractive again. Even then it may not have the ceiling heights office tenants want? It's best to convert it to residential. There are many office buildings with vacancies that are currently attractive for today's office tenants. I've heard there are many work-from-home renters and buyers already moving to Winston-Salem. It appears as if many are moving from Charlotte and Raleigh? If you want office workers today, you have to invest in projects like the streetscape project or creative corridors or renovating empty buildings to make the city look attractive. Soon, workers will remove the outdated cycling center graphics and replace them with something more attractive, since that project is cancelled (expensive surprises found after work started).

Nice discussion. I am amazed at how you can make things positive F&M and I applaud that. But in this case, I suspect it’s merely putting a happy face on a dismal situation. Every city in NC seems to be outperforming W-S and no help is on the horizon from the State either. It really is inexplicable.