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Winston-Salem's Tallest Buildings and Skyscrapers
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 Post subject: Re: State of the City
PostPosted: Mon May 30, 2022 5:14 pm 
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Even High Point is taking businesses from Winston Salem. "Ecolab moving expanded warehouse operation from W-S to new High Point business park" https://www.bizjournals.com/triad/news/ ... 6#cxrecs_s


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 Post subject: Re: State of the City
PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2022 12:31 am 
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I remember seeing that project announced for High Point and I was thinking... that is what they have in Winston-Salem and that will likely be the expanded replacement structure. And it was. This was a case where being in a neighboring county wasn't seen as close by the company, but was seen as far away. Thankfully, it should be somewhat easy to replace them. However, that is an unusual building. It's from the 1960s and still has brewery tanks they couldn't remove. The down side for High Point, many of those workers are likely to commute from Forsyth and Davidson counties. The downside for the company... some of those workers who don't want to commute will look at the local job openings, forcing them to replace workers in a tough labor market for employers.


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 Post subject: Re: State of the City
PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2022 3:50 pm 
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Not being a WS native, I only very recently learned that the old Schlitz/Stroh brewery that now houses that Piedmont Industrial Park was once the largest brewery in the world.


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 Post subject: Re: State of the City
PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2022 6:06 pm 
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Quote:
Not being a WS native, I only very recently learned that the old Schlitz/Stroh brewery that now houses that Piedmont Industrial Park was once the largest brewery in the world.


Here's some interesting info about the brewery from an old WSJ article "Located off U.S. 52 in southern Forsyth County, the $45 million plant became the largest brewery in the world when it opened in May 1970. It covered an incredible 1.2 million square feet and produced around 4.4 million barrels of beer a year. Local economic-development leaders of the time hailed it as “the biggest single industrial investment in Forsyth County’s history,” according to the Winston-Salem Journal. However, by the time Schlitz opened its Winston-Salem plant, the company’s popularity had started to wane, largely due to poor marketing strategies and a change to its core beer recipe. Making matters even worse—a lot of locals didn’t want the brewery here in the first place.

Before it opened, a group of Methodist ministers vehemently protested the plant’s creation, claiming “it would increase alcohol consumption and turn Winston-Salem ‘into the brewing center of the Carolinas. A few years later, a Davie County resident filed a $2 million pollution lawsuit against the company. Although the lawsuit was eventually thrown out, Schlitz was forced to spend $1 million on anti-pollution equipment to avoid overloading Winston-Salem’s sewage system and polluting the Yadkin River.Employees at the brewery also held strikes and work stoppages throughout the 1970s to dispute contracts and other issues. Schlitz Brewing Co. was ultimately sold to Stroh Brewing Co. in 1982, making Stroh the third-largest brewer in the country. However, the Detroit-based company didn’t fare much better than its predecessor.

After taking on debt to acquire Schlitz, Stroh couldn’t keep up with other national brands and began to rapidly lose market share. In 1999, Stroh sold all of its brands to Pabst Brewing and Miller Brewing Co., and some Stroh brands began to be brewed at Miller’s plant in Rockingham County.
Prior to closing, the Winston-Salem brewery was producing 5.5 million cases of beer a year—and it had produced a total of 2 billion cases over its 30-year lifetime. When it finally closed for good in August 1999, about 500 local people were left without a job."


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 Post subject: Re: State of the City
PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2022 8:32 pm 
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Yes, after hearing about it from a native, I found that very article. I believe there was also a section about Single Brothers being the first brewery in NC? First commercial brewery anyway.

ETA: yep, here it is: https://journalnow.com/winstonsalemmont ... 5b6ce.html


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 Post subject: Re: State of the City
PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2022 9:11 pm 
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Quote:
I believe there was also a section about Single Brothers being the first brewery in NC? First commercial brewery anyway.


Every time I read about the Single Brothers brewery, It makes me wish Old Salem would start a fund raising project to build it historically correct as shown in the photos. I just think it would be very cool to have it as a part of the village. From a marketing standpoint, I can imagine all sorts of ways to leverage the Single Brothers business for both the city and Old Salem (especially it included some original recipes and graphics of their beers and distilled spirits)! It would be amazing to advertise that it was started in 1774. I did a search for the oldest distilleries in the US and according to the magazine Chilled, "Buffalo Trace Distillery" was started in 1755 and "Burkes" goes back to 1773. From the article: "The name of Burks’ Distillery is now less well-known than the name of the company that bought it to start making their bourbon there in 1954: Maker’s Mark. The distillery goes way back to 1773 and is recognized in the Guinness Book of World Records as the oldest bourbon distillery in the world. It was made a National Historic Landmark in 1980, the first distillery in the USA to be given that status."

So it seems like there should be all sorts of tax credits and grants available to rebuild. I think the simple fact that Old Salem had a working historical brewery would increase visitation to the area.


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 Post subject: Re: State of the City
PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2022 9:17 pm 
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This is such a great idea and Old Salem should do this immediately. Wish I had the dough to do it.


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 Post subject: Re: State of the City
PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2022 8:34 am 
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Posts: 640
F&M - in another thread, you mentioned something that piqued my interest. If medical buildings are owned by the provider, there is no tax assessed to the property (assuming the provider is non-profit). However, if they rent the property from a for-profit company (e.g., a real estate company), the property is assessed for property tax purposes.

I assume this is accurate, and I have never thought of it before. Tax revenue for the city/county is so important for our growth and our ability to provide a place people want to live. TBJ had an article today:

https://www.bizjournals.com/triad/news/ ... 0#cxrecs_s

"The sales continues a trend of doctors selling their Triad facilities at price far higher than the total taxable value, taking advantage of rapidly increasing values of medical properties."

I assume that these sales are a positive for the city? They were owned by the doctor and no property tax was assessed, but now property taxes will begin to accrue...?


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 Post subject: Re: State of the City
PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2022 12:16 pm 
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Posts: 3513
WSBornNBred wrote:
F&M - in another thread, you mentioned something that piqued my interest. If medical buildings are owned by the provider, there is no tax assessed to the property (assuming the provider is non-profit). However, if they rent the property from a for-profit company (e.g., a real estate company), the property is assessed for property tax purposes.

I assume this is accurate, and I have never thought of it before. Tax revenue for the city/county is so important for our growth and our ability to provide a place people want to live. TBJ had an article today:

https://www.bizjournals.com/triad/news/ ... 0#cxrecs_s

"The sales continues a trend of doctors selling their Triad facilities at price far higher than the total taxable value, taking advantage of rapidly increasing values of medical properties."

I assume that these sales are a positive for the city? They were owned by the doctor and no property tax was assessed, but now property taxes will begin to accrue...?


I think the opposite is true. When these properties were owned by the individual doctors/investors, property taxes were assessed. Their purchase by NOVANT & ATRIUM/WFB, which are non-profit organizations I believe have the possibility of taking them off the tax roles, which could be a pretty good sized hit.


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 Post subject: Re: State of the City
PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2022 12:51 pm 
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Posts: 404
This is a good article in the WSJ about the tax status of Novant and WFU Medical facilities: https://journalnow.com/business/local/i ... 38186.html


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 Post subject: Re: State of the City
PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2022 3:05 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jul 23, 2015 6:26 am
Posts: 640
zalo wrote:
WSBornNBred wrote:
F&M - in another thread, you mentioned something that piqued my interest. If medical buildings are owned by the provider, there is no tax assessed to the property (assuming the provider is non-profit). However, if they rent the property from a for-profit company (e.g., a real estate company), the property is assessed for property tax purposes.

I assume this is accurate, and I have never thought of it before. Tax revenue for the city/county is so important for our growth and our ability to provide a place people want to live. TBJ had an article today:

https://www.bizjournals.com/triad/news/ ... 0#cxrecs_s

"The sales continues a trend of doctors selling their Triad facilities at price far higher than the total taxable value, taking advantage of rapidly increasing values of medical properties."

I assume that these sales are a positive for the city? They were owned by the doctor and no property tax was assessed, but now property taxes will begin to accrue...?


I think the opposite is true. When these properties were owned by the individual doctors/investors, property taxes were assessed. Their purchase by NOVANT & ATRIUM/WFB, which are non-profit organizations I believe have the possibility of taking them off the tax roles, which could be a pretty good sized hit.


In these cases, however, it's not Novant or Atrium buying the properties - it is LLCs that purchase buildings and then lease them out to healthcare providers to get a reliable income stream. The LLCs are for profit entities that make their money primarily by investing in real estate.


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 Post subject: Re: State of the City
PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2022 7:01 am 
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Joined: Thu Jul 23, 2015 6:26 am
Posts: 640
The article is behind a paywall, but I am including the only reference to Winston-Salem. This is a National Business Journal article. Winston has the third lowest average rent in the country among "larger" metros.

https://www.bizjournals.com/charlotte/n ... ation.html

"Among larger metros, McAllen, Texas ($650); Des Moines, Iowa ($741.90); and Winston-Salem, North Carolina ($770.71); had the lowest average rents."


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